Face to face with Beppe Grillo

What is the Movimento 5 Stelle (the 5 Stars Movement) ?

The Movimento 5 Stelle is a political movement which originated on the Internet, and only on the Internet. It all started with posts I published on my daily blog, focusing on all kinds of subjects, and on which I invited people to comment. At some point, I launched (well, we launched) a platform based on the American web service Meetup.

Whoever shared our views could sign up, connect to other members, meet with their locals and give rise to grassroots political activism. All this was based only on our ideas, not on a specific ideology. At that point, civic lists were set up by citizens wanting to reclaim possession of Italian politics, economy and institutions. Now, its representatives can be found in 42 cities and regional councils and, soon, within the national Parliament. Today, the Movimento counts 400 groups in 400 cities across Italy, with almost 100000 members.The five stars represent our main ideas: a public water system; waste management based on garbage collection, sorting and recycling; renewable energies; better public transportation and finally a free wireless network for all. Aside from these five ideas, we have a whole program: we are the only movement with plenty of ideas and no guiding ideology!

What forms of political activism did the grassroots movement favour?

Anything from protests to petitioning, just like any movement of critical mass. We had crowds on bikes demonstrating in favour of bike lanes, we petitioned for support of publicly owned services such as water or waste sorting, and against incinerators or nuclear power plants. Apart from that, they led an information campaign, distributing printouts of a paper I published on my blog”

Why did this movement originate on the Internet?

Here in Italy it’s common for media outlets to be owned by industrial groups, banking firms or political parties, whose main interest is to keep the status quo and hold on to the billions of euros from elections expenses. The media has refrained from addressing certain issues in order to exist. We don’t earn a single penny of public money: the Movimento Cinque Stelle is self-sponsored. We gathered 500.000 signatures without asking for any money. We even refused the 1,7 millions euros that we were entitled to by law. We talk about politics: some accused us of being «anti-political» but they are the ones that embody the true «anti-political» problem.

What sort of things can you freely discuss on the Internet but could not address on mainstream media?

We think about what my son’s life will be like 20 years from now. We want our society to convert from 6 to 2 kilowatts, from 40 to 20 tons of goods per person, from a 40 hour work-week to 20 hours… We have projects. Three Nobel prize winner write regularly write for our blog: Muhammad Yunus, Joseph Stiglitz and Dario Fo.

In your opinion, why is the media ignoring you ?

Because they are fucking afraid! We fly under their radar, they can’t track us! Internet is literally blocked here (cf. our main piece on cyberactivism in Italy) by powerful groups, who refuse to let it work, because they know these networks are changing society. There are fewer intermediates separating between citizens from political and economic institutions. Politicians, journalists, shop owners … they will all disappear! It also is a matter of age: people in those groups are in their 70s. On the Internet, they’re in their late 20s.

And how old are you ?

I’m 62. That’s why I don’t consider myself a proper cybernaut. I am a comedian and my goal is to aid communication between people. I provide the tools such as the platform, the blog, the Meetups, and the civic lists, for people, ideas and actions to come together. To make the greatest revolution in this country. I don’t think there is anything as huge in the whole of Europe… But, I didn’t create this. All I did was make use of the Internet, which transforms behaviors, information, etc.

How does the online platform work?

Subscribing online is free: all we need is your full name. If a citizen decides to get involved in politics, in his city or his region, he can do so through the portal, and launch a civic list within six days. The conditions are public: we check you don’t have a criminal record, are not member of another party and that you live in the city you want to get involved in. If you fit these criteria, you get a «quality label», «signed bythe Movimento Cinque Stelle, Beppegrillo.it ». Once this label is obtained, the member organise themselves, hold primaries, set lists… I give them a hand for public meetings in the street or places…

We currently have 42 representatives in big cities such as Bologna, Modena, Reggio Emilia, Venice, Treviso, and Brindisi; two regional counselors in Emilia Romagna and two more in Piemonte. All without any help from the newspapers. On the contrary, everybody was against us!
Regarding the program, it’s all in Wiki: anyone can improve it, nothing is set in stone. Architects debate on the building of energy-neutral houses, others discuss transportation, energy, water… Soon, we will enable a social network, like Facebook, as part of the effort to create simple tools that enable the exchange of information. It’s a political revolution: we are doing away with political parties, we’re above them! Citizen are reclaiming politics.

At first, Meet-up organised protests. Now, the Movimento 5 Stelle presents candidates to the elections. How can you explain your shift from critic of the institutions to election candidate?

First, the movement burst out of anger, we shouted « corrupted representatives, out ! » The protests were constructive, not an end unto themselves. Now, with the Movimento 5 Stelle, we evolved: we want to introduce new proposals. For example: in Treviso, an important city, one of our counselors set forth a project on waste disposal, which has since been approved. Now waste sorting has been imposed on 90 public schools, as well as 98% waste recycling.

Was Internet the only way to achieve to that result ?

Absolutely. Internet is under pressure. Laws have been put forward to put an end to it, impose financial cuts …They’re trying everything but they won’t succeed. It’s like a virus.

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Photo credits: Flickr CC Gengiskunk, cinemich, nulla

Translation by Federica Cocco.